M-G: 4.27.24 // When Was Abram Saved

Then he [Abram] believed in Yahweh; and He counted it to him as righteousness (Gn 15:6, LSB).

There are two major schools of thought on when Abram experienced genuine salvation. One school pinpoints Abram's salvation at Gn 15:6 and not before. The other school maintains that Abram was justified before then. This is the crux of the matter here; when was Abram saved? Not how was Abram saved? Both schools of thought cling to the same tenet of justification by faith; to be crystal clear, this is not the issue.

Other passages in Scripture echo the importance of the just (those judicially declared by Yahweh as righteous) living by faith (cf. Rom 4:3-6, 9; 4:20-25; Gal 3:6-14; Heb 11:8; Jas 2:23). The good thing is that both schools of thought on this issue of when agree with the divine principle behind salvation. Yahweh’s salvation offered to mankind is by grace through the same stand-alone faith that justified Abraham as righteous before Yahweh. This is what makes all who believe in Yahweh literally the sons and daughters of Abraham (cf. Gal 3:29, seed), yes, even us Gentiles!  

We also agree that this righteousness imputed to Abraham by Yahweh is completely unachievable by human effort whether based on ethics, morality, law, tradition, works, position, blood, will, sense of entitlement, etc. No human effort will ever make you or me right before God because it is entirely by grace through faith. The important role of believing in Gen 15:6 for salvation is seen in the contrast of the failure to believe (cf. Jn 3:18).

Before concerning the when factor of Abram’s salvation, we should give each school of thought a name first, yes? The good Lord knows that we love our labels! So, I decided to name one school – Pointmaker and the other – Whatabout.

Pointmakers. This school believes that Genesis 15:6 is the moment of Abram’s spiritual regeneration. Gn 11:26 - Gn 25:10 chronicles Abram's/Abraham's story. This view claims that Abram was unsaved from Gn 11:26 to Gn 15:5.

Whatabouts. This school of thought is that Abram was saved before ever leaving Ur of the Chaldeans for Haran, and all that took place before Genesis 15:6 was the outworking of his faith, fruit, and flaws.

Allow me to interject another thought. Some good and godly men belong to the Pointmakers school. I love ‘em to death, but I think they are wrong, and conversely, they feel the same way about me (God bless ‘em). So, this is not a personal attack by any means on the brethren; this is more an apologetic approach! Should any Pointmakers get to heaven before or after me, they can seek me out and offer an apology…! I’m cool with that!

What drew me into this discussion was the Pointmakers’ insistence that Abram wasn’t saved until Gn 15:6. This caused me to question if I was reading Hebrew 11 all wrong? The writer of Hebrews wrote it under inspiration (2 Tim 3:16-17). A pastor friend and I, members of the Whatabout school, were not having any problem with the Pointmakers' understanding of justification; rather, we were having trouble reconciling the position of the Pointmakers in light of the repeatable prepositional phrase by faith statements (18x), particularly concerning Abraham (Heb 11:8-19); BTW, Abe is spoken of more than any other person in Hebrews 11. This chapter included an illustrations before and after Gen 15:6 concerning Abraham (cf. Stephen’s testimony to the Sanhedrin concerning Abraham, Acts 7:2-5).

If Abraham was not saved before Gen 15:6, why in the world did the writer of Hebrews (Paul?) say under inspiration, 

By faith [emphasis mine] Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going (Heb 11:8)?

It really doesn’t make any sense to say a lost man by faith obeyed God and went out in obedience to Him to a foreign land!? Obviously, the kind of faith that the writer of Hebrews is referring to is found in Heb 11:1; it is a practical outworking of a genuine faith rather than a theological definition. The writer mentioned the just shall live by faith… (Heb 10:38). The heroes of the faith listed in Heb 11 illustrate the just living by faith.

If you want to take a look at the superb quality of the prepositional phrase, by faith, read the names of some of the saints associated with the outworking of their faith we call fruit: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, etc. Summary? And all these (including Abraham leaving Mesopotamia for a foreign land), having obtained a good testimony through faith… (Heb 11:39, emphasis mine). That quality of faith would indicate Abram was already justified before leaving Mesopotamia for Canaan, right?

Let me show you what Pointmakers are saying about Abram’s life before Gn 15:6:

(1) When Abram was approached by Yahweh in Ur of Mesopotamia, he wasn't saved (cf. Act 7:2-3).

(2) When Yahweh approached Abram when he was 75 in Haran, he was not saved (Gn 12:4).

(3) Abram built altars in Shechem (Gn 12:6-7) and Bethel (Gn 12:8), he wasn't saved.

(4) When Abram moved to Egypt he wasn't saved (Gn 12:10).

(5) When Abram called on the name of Yahweh at the Bethel altar he wasn't saved (Gn 13:4).

(6) When Abram gave his nephew the first choice of the land when separating, he wasn't saved (Gn 13:14-17).

(7) When Abram built another altar to Yahweh in Mamre (Hebron), he wasn't saved (Gn 15:1).

(8) When Abram defeated Chedorlaomer, king of Elam and company in rescuing Lot (Gn 14:16), he wasn't saved.

(9) When he paid tithes to Melchizedek (Gn 14:20), Abram wasn't saved.

(10) When Abram refused to take anything from the king of Sodom, he wasn't saved (Gn 14:23-24).

This is the Pointmakers' school of thought. Abraham was never justified by any of these things listed before Gen 15:6 (cf. Rom 4:1-2). We never read of Abram attempting to be justified by works. It is unfortunate to assume all that Abram did before Gn 15:6 was attempting a pseudo-salvation by works. If Abram was lost before that verse, the driving question is why was he being cited in Hebrews 11 among the heroes of the faith? Paul presents his argument that justification is by faith without works (cf. Gal 3:11). Heb 11:8 talks of an action by Abram before Gn 15:6 and after Gn 15:6 in Heb 11:9-10, 17-19.

The Whatabouts School of Thought maintains that what you see before Gn 15:6 is the fruit of the just [Abram] living by faith (cf. Jas 2:18, 20, 26)? What we often see in the life of Abram preceding Gn 15:6 is not about a man trying to win the favor of Yahweh through good works. His faith was a clean break from the demonic city of Ur (cf. Josh 24:2-3), but how many of us have a clean break from the flesh ever? He or she is still justified. Yahweh's ruling stands forever (cf. Eccl 3:14).

Pointmakers' biographical sketch of Abram as unsaved before Gn 15:6 is solely based on Gn 15:6, the first appearance of believe in Genesis and syntax,

Then he [Abram] believed in Yahweh; and He counted it to him as righteousness (Gn 15:6, LSB).

So the time of Abram before Gn 15:6, in the minds of the Pointmakers, Abram was never saved. It is important to note that context is still the sovereign of hermeneutics or the art and science of interpreting Scripture even to the point of trumping syntax. Whatabouts will argue that the Pointmakers are unfortunately violating their own rules of interpretation by ignoring the larger context, failing to adequately compare Scripture with Scripture, and in so doing, creating a false claim concerning Abram's spiritual status before Gn 15:6. Stigmatizing Abram as unsaved before Gn 15:6 is unfortunate in light of Heb 11:8.  

Now, as we said before, the Whatabouts are wholeheartedly in agreement with the Pointmakers that no one, and we mean no one, is justified by works. Abram knew this; we know it. We do not see, however, any evidence that Abram ever believed that works had anything to do with being righteous before God. 

H.C. Leupold is siding with us Whatabouts or we with him and Luther that Gen 15:6 was not when Abram was justified. He mentioned that Martin Luther had raised the question of whether Abraham had been justified before Gen 15:6, or was this the only point where Abram’s faith began to be counted to him for righteousness? Abram deserves the benefit of the doubt in light of other Scripture, yes?

Leupold asked a question,

“But why first record the justification here [Gen 15:6, added]? Naturally, the answer has to be that Abram was justified by faith as soon as his faith began to manifest itself, which must have been years before this time [emphasis mine]. But why first record the justification here? We feel our answer must take the same form as Luther’s, who points out that justification by faith is first indicated in the Scriptures in a connection where the Savior is definitely involved, in order that none might venture to dissociate justification from Him” (Leupold on the Old Testament, Genesis I, 478-479).

The Whatabouts recognize that Abram was already saved going as far back as that wretched city of Ur (cf. Acts 7:2-5). This was the very thing bothering Luther, Leupold, and us Whatabouts.

Sure, Abram wasn’t perfect, as with any of us. He left a wicked polytheistic culture in Ur of Mesopotamia (cf. Josh 24:2-3) as a saved man even though we don’t read the clarity of justification as we all (Pointmakers and Whatabouts) do when we read Gn 15:6. Abram answered the call of Yahweh in Ur in the affirmative! 

Again, the Whatabouts fully support the contention of the Pointmakers that Yahweh only judicially declares one to be righteous by faith alone, keeping in mind that faith alone doesn’t mean the absence of fruit; no, but it does mean that the absence of fruit indicates a dead faith (cf. Jn 8:39; Jas 2:17-18, 20, 26). Don’t be dead today or ever! Live by faith (believe to see) and not by sight (show me to believe). <>< 



Going Places in the Word

Going Places in the Word
Jn 7:17

Traveling the Road Less Traveled

Traveling the Road Less Traveled
The LXVI: 2 Tim 3:16-17; 2 Pet 1:20-21

Mining for Wisdom

Mining for Wisdom
Psa 90:12; Prov 9:10; Jer 29:13; Mt 6:21; Psa 19:9-10; 119:72, 127; Prov 2:3-5; 3:13-15; 16:16

Looking at the world through God's eyes

Looking at the world through God's eyes
1 Sam 16:7; Heb 4:12,13

Moving Forward

Moving Forward
Jn 15:5; Php 4:13; 1 Cor 9:26: Heb 12:1

Practicing the Presence of Christ

Practicing the Presence of Christ
Psa 16:8; 139:1-2; Heb 13:5

Calibrating - Capturing - Creating for His Glory

Calibrating - Capturing - Creating for His Glory
[Prov 4:18; Jn 8:12; Eph 5:8; 1 Jn 1:7]-[Psa 36:9; 43:3; 119:130]-[Eccl 2:13; Mt 5:16]

Getting the Lead Out

Getting the Lead Out
1 Cor 10:31; 15:58; Heb 6:10

Lighting It Up

Lighting It Up
2 Sam 22:29; Psa 18:28; 119:105; Prov 6:23; Mt 5:16

Declaring biblical boundaries one post at a time!

Declaring biblical boundaries one post at a time!
Jdg 21:25b; Prov 16:25; 22:28; Jude 1:3

Working the Word

Working the Word
Psa 1:1-2; Jos 1:7-8; 1 Cor 10:31